Julie and all,
I'm sorry about your boxes Julie. That makes number 3 and 4 counting
Deborah's and Randy's. I certainly hope your other two are still there.
If somebody found your letterboxes on the web and destroyed 2 of them why
wouldn't they go after the other two also? I'm just wondering why they would go
all the way out there and only do 2 of them, you know? Please let us know right
away after you find out about the other 2. I think I'll be surprised (if in
fact they found them on the web) if the other 2 are still intact.
Don't be discouraged everybody. Its a relatively small number of boxes that
have encountered problems. The first two we are quite certain were stumbled
upon, not found on the web, and we don't know if Julies were found on the web
for sure either.
But this does raise some interesting questions. How do we safeguard against
things like this if in fact curmudgeons will use the web to find and steal
boxes. Gee, I wonder if Eric Mings is doing this to prove a point?? Just
kidding... << BIG, BIG Grin >>
Anyway, I don't think we should be alarmed if these are the first two. It may
very well be an isolated ocurrence. But it is still cause to wonder what to do
to prevent this sort of thing which is bound to happen at some level. We talked
about this seriously last summer in several discussions and we were resolved at
the time that this would probably be rare so why should we worry about it?
Well, I think we need to see how rare it is by continuing to watch what happens
now.
I wonder if unsimplifying the clues is a good plan -- try to make them more
tricky, you know, just not so much that the box becomes not discoverable. If
finding the box involves a little more work then that would probably discourage
most of the curmudgeons who by nature are lazy anyway. Another possible help
would be to not make the boxes quite so remote -- you know, keep them closer to
home and to civilization where we, or our friends or neighbors can help keep an
eye on them. People are not likely to mess with something right on your
property or right in the path and view of the public. Here's something else:
Lean more toward the letterbook concept, the bar crawl, etc. -- using local
libraries or bookstores, pubs & rec centers -- not that all boxes would have to
be done this way -- but if this shows to be a common problem we may want to feed
them less opportunities to vandalize boxes and these are some ways to do that.
I'm anxious to hear what you find out Julie. I'm really angry that someone
would do this and greatly disheartened that they might be abusing our
good-spiritedness here.
But no matter what Julie finds out I hope you will all help us think through
some possible solutions in case this would become a problem in the future.
Please put your thinking caps on, confirm some of my thoughts here or come up
with something totally new. Let's not give in to this. Let's not throw in the
towel just yet. We've just started and we've only learned a little bit. We're
still learning (to have fun) -- even with the problems that may arise.
I wonder Adrian, if the method to intentionally use compass bearings is not
sounding better all the time. It seems to me that it accomplishes 2 things at
the same time. It gives you an interesting, involved hunt that you have to work
at (perhaps even develop a skill to solve), and it also gives you something
definite toward which to point your hunt. It ties it down. But it ties it down
in a way that does not spoil the mystery and fun. And I think it would make
vandalism more difficult and more involved thus lessening the likelihood of
vandals going out of there way. I would think that only someone with the true
spirit of a letterboxer would be interested in solving clues written this way.
Anyway, what are your thoughts? You are an advocate and friend here.
Let's here your insights on this latest problem.
Take care all, and again, sorry Julie about your boxes and your hard work going
to waste there. Let's hope it stops now. And do let us know what you find
out. I'll work hard to figure out some solution so we can maintain the openess
that has defined this group and letterboxing in the USA.
Dan'l
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Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
10 messages in this thread |
Started on 1999-01-07
[L-USA] Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
From: Daniel Servatius (elf@pclink.com) |
Date: 1999-01-07 22:00:03 UTC-06:00
[L-USA] Re: Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
From: Steven Stary (kurrwic@yahoo.com) |
Date: 1999-01-08 07:00:11 UTC-08:00
I think I have an idea, but I'm not sure how well it will work...
I'd like to be able to have clues acessible to everyone who wants
them, but not to vandals. Could we set it up so that in order to
receive the clues you must first e-mail the person who placed the
letterbox? We already have the clues posted, can we just put a little
individual password on each of them? The password can then be given
to those who contact us about seeking our letterboxes. This doesn't
stop random finds, but it does stop deliberate sabotage. Don't
crucify me if you think this is a bad idea, it is just a suggestion to
get the ball rolling.
Steven
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I'd like to be able to have clues acessible to everyone who wants
them, but not to vandals. Could we set it up so that in order to
receive the clues you must first e-mail the person who placed the
letterbox? We already have the clues posted, can we just put a little
individual password on each of them? The password can then be given
to those who contact us about seeking our letterboxes. This doesn't
stop random finds, but it does stop deliberate sabotage. Don't
crucify me if you think this is a bad idea, it is just a suggestion to
get the ball rolling.
Steven
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[L-USA] Re: Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
From: erik/susan davis (davisarc@wcvt.com) |
Date: 1999-01-08 08:51:49 UTC-08:00
Julie:
I also share the disappointment that, again, some boxes have been lost.
I hope that #'s 1 and 2 are still intact!
I think it is VERY important to assess if these could reasonably be
accidental finds, i.e., NOT as a result of clue searching. That is my
hope, obviously. Is it possible that a (non-human) animal, say a dog,
skunk or porcupine, got into the box looking for food? Any evidence
(scratches, tooth marks, etc) to suggest that? I'm now thinking of the
ones that I've hidden in rock niches, where animals might like to crawl
into seeking shelter, pushing the letterbox out into daylight and view
by passerbys.
Yup, if we determine that boxes are being trashed vis clue hunts, we'll
likely have to send clues from individual requests - a real dampening of
the open spirit we're trying to establish. Yet, given the distances
between the first two boxes, and again, distance to Texas, its hard to
buy into an organized 'conspiracy' of any sort. I still feel an
accidental find is the most likely. Let's hope!
Perhaps we should all check the boxes already placed to verify status,
if they have not been checked recently?
Finally, Dan, too bad to have mentioned ELM, even in jest. He's not an
ogre, and should not be villianized, even tongue-in-cheek. Myself, I'd
welcome his participation in THIS group if he had boxes to place and was
hunting for others.
Erik D.
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I also share the disappointment that, again, some boxes have been lost.
I hope that #'s 1 and 2 are still intact!
I think it is VERY important to assess if these could reasonably be
accidental finds, i.e., NOT as a result of clue searching. That is my
hope, obviously. Is it possible that a (non-human) animal, say a dog,
skunk or porcupine, got into the box looking for food? Any evidence
(scratches, tooth marks, etc) to suggest that? I'm now thinking of the
ones that I've hidden in rock niches, where animals might like to crawl
into seeking shelter, pushing the letterbox out into daylight and view
by passerbys.
Yup, if we determine that boxes are being trashed vis clue hunts, we'll
likely have to send clues from individual requests - a real dampening of
the open spirit we're trying to establish. Yet, given the distances
between the first two boxes, and again, distance to Texas, its hard to
buy into an organized 'conspiracy' of any sort. I still feel an
accidental find is the most likely. Let's hope!
Perhaps we should all check the boxes already placed to verify status,
if they have not been checked recently?
Finally, Dan, too bad to have mentioned ELM, even in jest. He's not an
ogre, and should not be villianized, even tongue-in-cheek. Myself, I'd
welcome his participation in THIS group if he had boxes to place and was
hunting for others.
Erik D.
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[L-USA] Re: Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
From: Thom Cheney (tcgrafx@imagina.com) |
Date: 1999-01-08 14:18:34 UTC-08:00
Steven Stary wrote:
This doesn't
> stop random finds, but it does stop deliberate sabotage. Don't
> crucify me if you think this is a bad idea, it is just a suggestion to
> get the ball rolling.
No crucifixion allowed on this list, especially for constructive ideas.
I believe this was bound to happen, especially since we are hiding our
boxes in public areas that get used by all kinds of people. I have
trouble accepting that someone would stumble on a letterboxing web site,
find clues that just happen to be nearby, decipher them and go out
specifically to destroy or steal a letterbox. I have to think that
these are random acts by misguided individuals who just don't care or
think. I suspect it will happen to my boxes someday as well. I think
we are on the right course the way we are headed. If you are worried
about your boxes, hide them in more remote places and make your clues
tougher. Adrian, has anyone found that letterbox with the enigmatic
"race day" clue? We just need to get tougher here.
We are letterboxers!! We live for hard clues!! We sleep with our
compasses!! We wear our hiking boots to bed!! We kick serious butt on
the trail!! We laugh at inclement weather!! We bleed stamp pad ink!!
Our children are named after great engraving artists!! OOOH Rah!!!!
seriously though... sorry to hear about your boxes. Best of luck with
the rest & don't give up!!!
--
Thom Cheney
tcgrafx... among other things
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This doesn't
> stop random finds, but it does stop deliberate sabotage. Don't
> crucify me if you think this is a bad idea, it is just a suggestion to
> get the ball rolling.
No crucifixion allowed on this list, especially for constructive ideas.
I believe this was bound to happen, especially since we are hiding our
boxes in public areas that get used by all kinds of people. I have
trouble accepting that someone would stumble on a letterboxing web site,
find clues that just happen to be nearby, decipher them and go out
specifically to destroy or steal a letterbox. I have to think that
these are random acts by misguided individuals who just don't care or
think. I suspect it will happen to my boxes someday as well. I think
we are on the right course the way we are headed. If you are worried
about your boxes, hide them in more remote places and make your clues
tougher. Adrian, has anyone found that letterbox with the enigmatic
"race day" clue? We just need to get tougher here.
We are letterboxers!! We live for hard clues!! We sleep with our
compasses!! We wear our hiking boots to bed!! We kick serious butt on
the trail!! We laugh at inclement weather!! We bleed stamp pad ink!!
Our children are named after great engraving artists!! OOOH Rah!!!!
seriously though... sorry to hear about your boxes. Best of luck with
the rest & don't give up!!!
--
Thom Cheney
tcgrafx... among other things
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[L-USA] Re: Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
From: Randy Hall (randy@mapsurfer.com) |
Date: 1999-01-08 23:23:28 UTC-04:00
Just some random (rather lengthy :-)) thoughts on the missing
boxes, web publishing, etc.
1) I agree that the long term solution is difficult clues and/or
remote locations. Fortunately, both of these things appeal to me
alot, and that is what I will persue this spring, when the weather
around here improves. I was gonna do it anyway :-) However, the
downsides to difficulty are a) some people may prefer to hide boxes
that are easy (or hunt them), and b) hard clues may be a turnoff to
growing the hobby. I would not want to exclude people who feel
this way from the hobby. My hope is that people may get their feet
wet with some easy ones, then do hard ones as the rule, but it would
be nice to find a solution that allows people to always do easy ones.0
2) I believe my box was vandalized by a random passerby, and not a web
user, simply because the area it was in has alot of people exploring it
(someone else found the box by accident and left a note in the log, and
they explicitly said they had no internet access in the note). However,
I disagree with the (potential) assertion that a web user who stumbled
onto the clue site would not vandalize a box. Jerks exists in the parks
who stumble over poorly hidden letterboxes; jerks also exist on the net
who stumble over clues. Some jerks enjoy a challenge. Having been around
the 'net for along time and dealing with internet security, I see jerks
who enjoy a challenge all the time. The idea of finding a clue on the
'net and vandalizing the box is plausable to me.
3) Having said that, I feel taking clues off the web may be risky. I
think the clues on the web will attract new people to the hobby, and,
assuming attracting more people to the hobby is a good thing (and that
can be debated too, as alot of thought rests on that premise), I would
posit that the creative energy contributed from new recruits would outweigh
the destruction from being open, but how this actually balances out
remains to be seen. I myself am going to try a few more on the web and
see what happens. Of course, my first reaction when I discovered my box
was to take the clue off the web, and there is a chance, IMO, that that may
yet be proven to be the right thing to do, but I do not want to give up
quite yet.
4) Other things that can be done, in no particular order and without any
particular endorsement: a) password protect the clue section of the web
site (Dan would have to work with his ISP to do this, and many ISPs charge
to do it); b) post clues to this e-mail list, and NOT archive it on the
egroups web site c) post a general location of the box on the map, and a
mailto URL for the clue, so the owner of the clue can decide whether to
send it; d) set up a database ala ILC; e) check the web server logs to
see who is accessing particular clues -- at least you can know *if* anyone
read the clue, and can often determine their geographical location and
whether they exist outside this group -- for Dan to do this, he would have
to coordinate with his ISP (most do this for free if they are on the ball).
5) While I favor openness, I am against general promotion, as was disussed
at various times previously. I want the sort of person that seeks out
or discovers letterboxing on their own to be drawn into the hobby. That sort
of person may need to see maps and clues on a web site to get hooked, but
that sort of person most likely will not be the jerk who would vandalize.
I feel the odds are worse with general promotion. So this contradicts point
2) above a bit. I guess my response is that I don't have enough information
yet, but this and point 2) may have some useful insight, so I'll live with
it for now :-)
Randy "the mapsurfer"
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boxes, web publishing, etc.
1) I agree that the long term solution is difficult clues and/or
remote locations. Fortunately, both of these things appeal to me
alot, and that is what I will persue this spring, when the weather
around here improves. I was gonna do it anyway :-) However, the
downsides to difficulty are a) some people may prefer to hide boxes
that are easy (or hunt them), and b) hard clues may be a turnoff to
growing the hobby. I would not want to exclude people who feel
this way from the hobby. My hope is that people may get their feet
wet with some easy ones, then do hard ones as the rule, but it would
be nice to find a solution that allows people to always do easy ones.0
2) I believe my box was vandalized by a random passerby, and not a web
user, simply because the area it was in has alot of people exploring it
(someone else found the box by accident and left a note in the log, and
they explicitly said they had no internet access in the note). However,
I disagree with the (potential) assertion that a web user who stumbled
onto the clue site would not vandalize a box. Jerks exists in the parks
who stumble over poorly hidden letterboxes; jerks also exist on the net
who stumble over clues. Some jerks enjoy a challenge. Having been around
the 'net for along time and dealing with internet security, I see jerks
who enjoy a challenge all the time. The idea of finding a clue on the
'net and vandalizing the box is plausable to me.
3) Having said that, I feel taking clues off the web may be risky. I
think the clues on the web will attract new people to the hobby, and,
assuming attracting more people to the hobby is a good thing (and that
can be debated too, as alot of thought rests on that premise), I would
posit that the creative energy contributed from new recruits would outweigh
the destruction from being open, but how this actually balances out
remains to be seen. I myself am going to try a few more on the web and
see what happens. Of course, my first reaction when I discovered my box
was to take the clue off the web, and there is a chance, IMO, that that may
yet be proven to be the right thing to do, but I do not want to give up
quite yet.
4) Other things that can be done, in no particular order and without any
particular endorsement: a) password protect the clue section of the web
site (Dan would have to work with his ISP to do this, and many ISPs charge
to do it); b) post clues to this e-mail list, and NOT archive it on the
egroups web site c) post a general location of the box on the map, and a
mailto URL for the clue, so the owner of the clue can decide whether to
send it; d) set up a database ala ILC; e) check the web server logs to
see who is accessing particular clues -- at least you can know *if* anyone
read the clue, and can often determine their geographical location and
whether they exist outside this group -- for Dan to do this, he would have
to coordinate with his ISP (most do this for free if they are on the ball).
5) While I favor openness, I am against general promotion, as was disussed
at various times previously. I want the sort of person that seeks out
or discovers letterboxing on their own to be drawn into the hobby. That sort
of person may need to see maps and clues on a web site to get hooked, but
that sort of person most likely will not be the jerk who would vandalize.
I feel the odds are worse with general promotion. So this contradicts point
2) above a bit. I guess my response is that I don't have enough information
yet, but this and point 2) may have some useful insight, so I'll live with
it for now :-)
Randy "the mapsurfer"
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[L-USA] Re: Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
From: erik/susan davis (davisarc@wcvt.com) |
Date: 1999-01-08 19:37:23 UTC-08:00
Steve:
Something like your suggestion might need to be instituted if indeed
vandalism continues to happen, which is why I feel so very strongly
about determining whether or not the vandalism is from accidental finds
- the solution to that is a better hiding job.
However, if someone(s) are reading clues and then trashing boxes, how do
you deter that? I guess I agree that someone asking for a clue might be
less willing to use it destructively that someone downloading it
anonymously. Right now, individuals who feel their boxes are at risk can
have the clue removed, and send it out to requests only. Quick and easy,
no universal protpcol agreement necessary. I'd vote for that approach
unless or until things get worse.
But, I guess now I gotta go out and check on a few of mine. Brrrrr.
Erik
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Something like your suggestion might need to be instituted if indeed
vandalism continues to happen, which is why I feel so very strongly
about determining whether or not the vandalism is from accidental finds
- the solution to that is a better hiding job.
However, if someone(s) are reading clues and then trashing boxes, how do
you deter that? I guess I agree that someone asking for a clue might be
less willing to use it destructively that someone downloading it
anonymously. Right now, individuals who feel their boxes are at risk can
have the clue removed, and send it out to requests only. Quick and easy,
no universal protpcol agreement necessary. I'd vote for that approach
unless or until things get worse.
But, I guess now I gotta go out and check on a few of mine. Brrrrr.
Erik
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[L-USA] Re: Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
From: (Letterboxr@aol.com) |
Date: 1999-01-09 02:06:10 UTC-05:00
I'm so sad about Julie's double loss. I hope the other two are OK.
Even if there are further problems with random jerks spoiling the fun, I am
determined to continue to participate in the manner that we have established.
We can't let a few Aholes spoil our fun.
I think our primary protective measure needs to be making harder clues and
finding more remote areas, although I agree that simple clues have their place
for newcomers and children. I intend to continue my trend of producing both
hard and easy letterboxes and encourage others to do the same. Thus far, I
have been hiding about 2 hard ones for every 1 easy one, but in the future I
may lean a bit more toward hard ones. Half of the harder ones I've made
require a respectable hike.
As a desperate resort, we could try giving out the clues personally, as
suggested. In this case, the online maps would only tell you which city,
park, forest, etc. the box was located in, and give the contact information
for specific clues.
Another idea to consider comes to us from ancient Egypt. We could simply put
a Pharoh's curse over the letterbox, such that anyone who willfully vandalizes
the landmark would be subject to a life of woe.
Happy trails,
'Der Mad Stamper'
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Even if there are further problems with random jerks spoiling the fun, I am
determined to continue to participate in the manner that we have established.
We can't let a few Aholes spoil our fun.
I think our primary protective measure needs to be making harder clues and
finding more remote areas, although I agree that simple clues have their place
for newcomers and children. I intend to continue my trend of producing both
hard and easy letterboxes and encourage others to do the same. Thus far, I
have been hiding about 2 hard ones for every 1 easy one, but in the future I
may lean a bit more toward hard ones. Half of the harder ones I've made
require a respectable hike.
As a desperate resort, we could try giving out the clues personally, as
suggested. In this case, the online maps would only tell you which city,
park, forest, etc. the box was located in, and give the contact information
for specific clues.
Another idea to consider comes to us from ancient Egypt. We could simply put
a Pharoh's curse over the letterbox, such that anyone who willfully vandalizes
the landmark would be subject to a life of woe.
Happy trails,
'Der Mad Stamper'
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[L-USA] Re: Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
From: Adrian Williams (havefeet@letterboxing.freeserve.co.uk) |
Date: 1999-01-09 09:46:27 UTC
Hi All
Have
i missed something RACE DAY CLUE ????????
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: Thom Cheney <tcgrafx@imagina.com>
To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com <letterbox-usa@egroups.com>
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 3:28 AM
Subject: [L-USA] Re: Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
From: Thom Cheney <tcgrafx@imagina.com>
To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com <letterbox-usa@egroups.com>
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 3:28 AM
Subject: [L-USA] Re: Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
Steven Stary wrote: This doesn't > stop random finds, but it does stop deliberate sabotage. Don't > crucify me if you think this is a bad idea, it is just a suggestion to > get the ball rolling. No crucifixion allowed on this list, especially for constructive ideas. I believe this was bound to happen, especially since we are hiding our boxes in public areas that get used by all kinds of people. I have trouble accepting that someone would stumble on a letterboxing web site, find clues that just happen to be nearby, decipher them and go out specifically to destroy or steal a letterbox. I have to think that these are random acts by misguided individuals who just don't care or think. I suspect it will happen to my boxes someday as well. I think we are on the right course the way we are headed. If you are worried about your boxes, hide them in more remote places and make your clues tougher. Adrian, has anyone found that letterbox with the enigmatic "race day" clue? We just need to get tougher here. We are letterboxers!! We live for hard clues!! We sleep with our compasses!! We wear our hiking boots to bed!! We kick serious butt on the trail!! We laugh at inclement weather!! We bleed stamp pad ink!! Our children are named after great engraving artists!! OOOH Rah!!!! seriously though... sorry to hear about your boxes. Best of luck with the rest & don't give up!!! -- Thom Cheney tcgrafx... among other things |
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[L-USA] Re: Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
From: Thom Cheney (tcgrafx@imagina.com) |
Date: 1999-01-09 10:57:29 UTC-08:00
Adrian Williams wrote:
>
> Hi All
> Have i missed something RACE DAY CLUE ????????
yes... there was reference at one point to a clue that had something to
do with race day. The whole set of clues was 2 random statements with
no apparent connection. It may have been in the Smithsonian article, or
I read it here... or somewhere!!! I was immediately impressed & it has
stuck in my head (obviously not well, or I'd remember more of it!!!).
--
Thom Cheney
tcgrafx... among other things
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>
> Hi All
> Have i missed something RACE DAY CLUE ????????
yes... there was reference at one point to a clue that had something to
do with race day. The whole set of clues was 2 random statements with
no apparent connection. It may have been in the Smithsonian article, or
I read it here... or somewhere!!! I was immediately impressed & it has
stuck in my head (obviously not well, or I'd remember more of it!!!).
--
Thom Cheney
tcgrafx... among other things
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[L-USA] Re: Lost Texas boxes, don't lose hope...
From: jjp (exposto1@airmail.net) |
Date: 1999-01-23 14:16:47 UTC-05:00
Hi All--
Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to the kind wishes in some e-mail.
I've been overwhelmed with mail from another list that I'm on and it's been
hard to find the messages I need to respond to in the piles of messages.
Erik D. said--
>Yup, if we determine that boxes are being trashed vis clue hunts, we'll
>likely have to send clues from individual requests - a real dampening of
>the open spirit we're trying to establish. Yet, given the distances
>between the first two boxes, and again, distance to Texas, its hard to
>buy into an organized 'conspiracy' of any sort. I still feel an
>accidental find is the most likely. Let's hope!
I'm still hoping, but when 3 out of four boxes were missing it's hard to
assume the best. I intend to put more boxes out, but I will NOT be putting
them in the same places as the missing ones. (That would just be
crazy--if it was an accidental find someone might be back to see if there's
another treasure; if nature's forces washed them away (2 out of the 3
missing ones are completely gone--left no trace or trash to indicate they
ever existed) it would be a really bad idea to put them back to have that
happen again. I sorta don't think they were washed away anyway, due to the
distance fromt the creek and the state of the logs they were hidden under.)
Conspiracy seems extremely doubtful, but geez, I don't want to lose anymore
boxes!
I'm thinking clues may be not only more obscure, but more difficult to get
in the first place. So...I'm thinking I'll putting my e-mail address up
instead of clues...
Your thoughts?
Julie
I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks.
Want to buy a book? I'm trying to make a life-long dream come true and
open a bookshop. It's tiny, but it grows now and then. Come see!
>http://members.tripod.com/~anniespark1e/commercial.html
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Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to the kind wishes in some e-mail.
I've been overwhelmed with mail from another list that I'm on and it's been
hard to find the messages I need to respond to in the piles of messages.
Erik D. said--
>Yup, if we determine that boxes are being trashed vis clue hunts, we'll
>likely have to send clues from individual requests - a real dampening of
>the open spirit we're trying to establish. Yet, given the distances
>between the first two boxes, and again, distance to Texas, its hard to
>buy into an organized 'conspiracy' of any sort. I still feel an
>accidental find is the most likely. Let's hope!
I'm still hoping, but when 3 out of four boxes were missing it's hard to
assume the best. I intend to put more boxes out, but I will NOT be putting
them in the same places as the missing ones. (That would just be
crazy--if it was an accidental find someone might be back to see if there's
another treasure; if nature's forces washed them away (2 out of the 3
missing ones are completely gone--left no trace or trash to indicate they
ever existed) it would be a really bad idea to put them back to have that
happen again. I sorta don't think they were washed away anyway, due to the
distance fromt the creek and the state of the logs they were hidden under.)
Conspiracy seems extremely doubtful, but geez, I don't want to lose anymore
boxes!
I'm thinking clues may be not only more obscure, but more difficult to get
in the first place. So...I'm thinking I'll putting my e-mail address up
instead of clues...
Your thoughts?
Julie
I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks.
Want to buy a book? I'm trying to make a life-long dream come true and
open a bookshop. It's tiny, but it grows now and then. Come see!
>http://members.tripod.com/~anniespark1e/commercial.html
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